Aviation Memorabilia Newsletter

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|\^/|
_| TCA |_        B E T W E E N   Y O U R S E L V E S
_|\| AIR |/|_              N E T L E T T E R
>  CANADA   <
>_./|\._<           for Air Canada retirees
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Chief Pilot  - Vesta Stevenson   This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
http://www.acra.ca/between/vesta/

Co-pilot     - Terry Baker         This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
http://www.acra.ca/between

number 309   date Sept 13th, 1998  1st Published in October 1995

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. Welecome to Bert and Connie Young living in Comox, BC.
email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Mrs Vern Matheuszil is fed up with waiting for her husband
to pass the NetLetter to her that she has her own
email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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. Where are they now?
Fred Coyle has changed his ISP, try This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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.WHAT'S ON AND WHERE IT'S ON -
SOME EVENTS MAY BE CANCELLED DUE PILOT'S STRIKE.
BUT SOME MAY NOT BE CANCELLED DUE LOCAL ATTENDANCE RATE.
We may not have been advised one way or another. eds.

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. There's no stopping Bill Norberg -

Subject: The Viscount and its famous or infamous structure.

The Viscount was a significant part of my work life and while I had a real
love for it I was never blind to its problems and limitations.
As I have indicated before, the decision by TCA to select the Viscount for
fleet growth and replacement in the early 50's was a bold one. The aircraft
was untried in airline service and was using turbine power. The decision
did give TCA the reputation as the first North American carrier to use
turbine powered aircraft in airline operations. Capitol Airlines of
Washington DC were the second carrier to select the Viscount. Capitol
Airlines was later taken over by United Airlines making UAL and TCA the
main users of the Viscount. This was rather interesting as UAL was the
airline that assisted TCA when it started in 1937.

The Viscount was a hit with the passengers as they experienced its quiet
cabin environment after their travel experiences with the North Stars and
their Merlin melodies. The Rolls Royce Dart powerplant made its commercial
debut on the Viscount and after a rocky start developed into one of the
most reliable powerplants in the industry. From an initial TBO of 600 hours
it was gradually developed in TCA /ACservice to  9000 hours TBO with a half
life check at 4500 hours. It was a power plant you could depend on.

The structural problems of the Viscount were quite another matter however.
After five years of operation a major TCA engineering report was issued
itemizing the many structural deficiencies that had developed during those
five years. I won't attempt to itemize them here but they affected most
areas of the aircraft from landing gear to wings. There were two areas of
structural problems that caused the greatest amount of work:-
1.Wing lower spar caps (booms).
2.Fuselage skin corrosion problems.

The design philosophy of the Viscount wing structure was a monospar
concept. This meant the structural integrity of the wing was dependent on
the fail safe life of the single wing spar. Most manufacturers use a multi
spar concept which provides a fail safe design.
Needless to say this feature was vital to the safety and airworthiness of
the aircraft. It was reasonable to expect this design would last for the
full life of the aircraft without any problems.

This main wing spar was an item built up of an upper and lower spar cap
(boom) bolted together by a spar web. During the operation of any aircraft
its structure is exposed to what is referred to as a "Ground-air-ground"
cycle of "GAG".As the aircraft becomes airborne the wing structure flexes
upwards as the various loads distribute themselves. This places the upper
wing spar cap(boom) in what is called a compression mode while the lower
spar cap(boom) is placed in a tension mode. This "GAG" cycle repeats itself
every flight and naturally becomes a source of metal fatigue for aircraft
structural components.

As the lower spar cap is exposed to these repetitive tension modes, any
small defects in the material can become what is referred to as a stress
riser and become the focus of a metal fatigue crack. It is not difficult to
imagine what serious results could occur if this was to happen to one of
these lower wing spar caps.The manufacturer recognized this and limits were
placed on the number of "GAG" cycles these lower wing spar caps could be
exposed to without risk of failure. The solution to the problem was to
replace these spar caps with new ones before reaching these maximum limits.

Replacement of lower spar caps required virtual disassembly of the wing to
extract the old cap and replace it. It was a labour intensive task
requiring about 30 days out of service. To make matters worse the first 12
Viscounts had much lower life limits on the spar caps which required as
many as three replacements during the life of the aircraft. This lower spar
cap replacement program continued as long as we operated the aircraft and
was a major source of higher maintenance costs.

Replacement of the lower wing spar caps in the Viscount could be compared
to removing the backbone from a fish,replacing the backbone and then
putting the fish back together again in a condition fit for whatever fish
do. It was a complex task and the Winnipeg Maintenance staff headed by Sam
Purves and Bill Bagley did a marvellous job to carry out these replacements
and still keep the fleet operating.
Next story will comment on the Viscount fuselage skin problems.
"Bill Norberg" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>

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. Ron Munson from the UK sends us some news -

Drunk and disruptive passengers on BA flights will be given soccer-style
yellow cards, warning them to stop their rowdy behaviour or risk facing
arrest on arrival.  The final warnings will be issued out by the cabin crew
and who will also warn passengers who drink too much or ignore no-smoking
signs, that they will be liable for costs if their behaviour forces the
captain to divert the flight to the nearest airport.
The trial was launched on 1st Sept. in a bid to combat the number of
air rage incidents which have risen by 400% in the last three years.

American is seeking rights to launch a Chicago - Moscow service from 1st
June next year.  No US airline operates the 3,214 mile route at present
though Aeroflot has three flights a week between the two cities. AA wants
to offer daily flights using 204-seat B767-300ER jets. (Maybe the ongoing
failure of the Russian economy may cause some rethinking I feel).

The UK's biggest travel companies have denied reports that they will turn
away passengers on 31st December 1999 and 1st Jan. 2000 to avoid year 2000
dangers, but have not ruled out the move in the future.
Reports in the press claimed that the big three- Thompson, First Choice and
Airtours - had decided not to allow travel.  Such a decision would have
cost the three firms millions of pounds in income, and would have been the
most drastic measure taken by a section of UK industry to avoid year 2000
problems.
The companies admitted they were approaching the potential problem together
and the Industry body ABTA said the decision to travel would be up to
individual firms.

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.  Betty-Lou Lynn sends this re 'snowbirds' -
Hello! Not only are we considering becoming snowbirds (Don took an early
retirement package several years ago, and we have a condo at Siesta Key,
Florida) for several months a year - assuming that the dollar doesn't go
to 43c! - also I'm doing a doctorate at the University of Toronto on the
snowbird lifestyle!
I'm in the process of interviewing couples who have already made this
decision and who go south every winter.  If there are interested Air Canada
snowbird couples within commuting distance of Toronto, I would like to
talk to you about your decision and experience.  Also, if you are anywhere in
Canada and are interested, I have a questionnaire (which has been approved by
the U of T) which I can send to you.
Thank you in advance for your interest! You can email me
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.  or call 416-233-7302, collect if necessary!

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. News from the Districts.

Don Hancock of Vancouver Pionairs sends this update -

The Vancouver Dreams take Flight is scheduled to operate October 20/98
departure 0700am.


The Vancouver District Pionair Executive.
Director                Don Hancock
Ass't Director          Glen Steeves
Treasurer               Joan Milton
Liaison for National Annual General Meeting YVR April 25/26/27 - 1999
Marv Lohnes
Past Directors          John and Terri FitzGibbon.

The next gathering of the YVR Pionairs is the fall luncheon on Sep
13/98 at the Richmond Inn commencing with a happy hour at 1130am
followed by the luncheon meeting. Special speaker will be Pat
Crowther DSM Holland America Line Westours
Inc. National Pionair President Olie Moore and wife Mary,
(Secretary), will also address the meeting with a message from the
National Executive.

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. Terry's travel tips.

Super Deals on Celebrity Cruises & Royal Caribbean !
INTERLINE CRUISE SPECIALS
Sail on the Rhapsody of the Seas to Hawaii for 11 nights
10/7 - $999.00pp  Inside Cabin Outside - $1299.00pp
9/26 - $1049.00pp Inside Cabin Outside - $1189.00pp
These rates include port charges!!!!!!! 

Legend of the Seas to Hawaii on 9/30 - 10 Nights
Rates starting at $1299.00pp  Including port charges

Galaxy - Pacific Coastal - 9/25 - Rates starting at $599.00pp

Galaxy - Southern Caribbean - Several dates in Oct., Nov., & Dec.
Rates starting at $599.00pp  Including port charges

Mercury - Western Caribbean - Several dates in Oct., Nov., & Dec.
Rates starting at $599.00pp  Including port charges

Majesty of the Seas - Western Caribbean - 11/29, 12/6, 12/13
Rates starting at $599.00pp  Including port charges

Monarch of the Seas - Southern Caribbean - 11/29, 12/6, 12/13
Rates starting at $549.00pp  Including port charges

Song of America (New York to San Juan) - 10/25
Rates starting at $599.00pp  Including port charges

These rates will go quickly so please call one of our agents at
1-800-345-7576 as soon as possible before it is GONE!
Interline rates apply only to airline employees, spouse of employee, parent
of employee, and those retired airline employees.

Ed Spaiches sends this information -
Re your tip in Netletter 307 on the topic of "driving cars to USA
destinations and getting $150 to help pay return airfare".
You may not be aware but the use of airline passes for such a purpose is
against Air Canada's rules for such use of passes which are not to be used
for business or profit. The penalty for such misuse of passes, I believe, is
the loss of the pass privilege and anyone losing their privilege will blame
you.           "Edward Spaiches" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>

And Ken Day has this comment -
Just a note of caution regarding ferrying cars.  A few years ago, there was
a major "TO DO" concerning employees delivering/returning cars for rental
agencies/car dealers.  The rub was the use of free and reduced
transportation going to pick-up or returning home, a benefit accrued and
often there was a monetary gain.
I don't know all the detail or the outcome but I think one event was the
major movement of vehicles - a veritable shuttle service
Quebec/Ontario/Florida.  I recall talk of disciplinary action/suspension of
travel privileges to those involved.
I hasten to add together with a warm hello again to Ross that his trip in
1964 would not qualify him as a small business entrepreneur.
Ken Day Auldis Day <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
(We were not advocating the use of passes to 'make money' but as a viable
alternative to getting continually bumped. eds)

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. Smilie.
Gordon Dalziel sends us this one -
Flying High

A farmer and his wife went to the fair. The farmer was fascinated by the
airplanes and asked a pilot how much a ride would cost. "$10 for 3
minutes," replied the pilot. "That's too much," said the farmer. The pilot
thought for a second and then said, "I'll make you a deal. If you and your
wife ride for 3 minutes without uttering a sound, the ride will be free.
But if you make a sound, you'll have to pay $10."
The farmer and his wife agreed and went for up for an extremely wild ride,
Immelman's, wing-overs, loops, hammer head stalls, rudder-triplets, the
works. After they landed, the pilot said to the farmer, "I want to
congratulate you for not making a sound. You are a brave man."
"Maybe so," said the farmer, "But I gotta tell ya, I almost screamed
when my wife fell out."

And from Jacques Gaucher
This passenger goes to the airport counter and says :" I'd like to go to
New York".
"By Buffalo?", says the counter agent.
"Well", says the customer, "it'll be the first time for me but, what the
heck, if the saddle is comfortable, why not?"

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.  That's it for this time, please we need your input, send
comments and email addresses of any others who may be
interested to Vesta with a copy to Terry.


/------------------------\               |--\_____/--\__  |
|  Between Yourselves     |______________ \______====== )-+
|       NetLetter         |                      ---|/--  |
\------------------------/                         ()

~Between Yourselves-Netletter~
mailto:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
mailto:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Copyright 1998 by Vesta Stevenson & Terry Baker.

==================================================================

|\^/|
_| TCA |_        B E T W E E N   Y O U R S E L V E S
_|\| AIR |/|_              N E T L E T T E R
>  CANADA   <
>_./|\._<           for Air Canada retirees
|

Chief Pilot  - Vesta Stevenson   This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
http://www.acra.ca/between/vesta/

Co-pilot     - Terry Baker         This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
http://www.acra.ca/between

number 308   date Sept 8th, 1998  1st Published in October 1995

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. Welcome to Keith Rhodes retired from AC Engineering in 1994
email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Captain Norm Savill retired and lives in Barrie Ont.
email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Mary & Morley Ryder. Morley joined at YOW in 1953, after
transfers to YUL then YHZ retired in 1985 as
Res & City Sales Manager. Both are involved with
the TCA Alumini, Mary being the secretary.
email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Bob Hunter retired from YUL, email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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. Where are they now?
Brian Burrows of Pickering Ont has changed his ISP. Creditors and friends
try email This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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. Golf!
Bill Sim sends this meaage -
By the way the Air Canada System Golf tournament that was to be held in
Manitoba is canceled.
Had a call from Brain Murray in Halifax this afternoon.
Bill s   email:  This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

And,  Alan Rust sends this -
Meanwhile you can contact Don at:
D.B.Murray, Secretary-Treasurer, ACRA System Golf Committee
Company Mail Operations Centre, Halifax 392
Phone (902) 873-2311 Fax (902) 873-3798 Teletype YHZOOAC
Regards,
Alan Rust, Publicity Chairman (YVR)
and Webmaster Air Canada Recreation Association
email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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. Need to know.
Rules and conditions for ID 80% Pos tickets:

Employees must respect booking and ticketing deadlines 
of applicable fare types, minimum and maximum stay, 
cancellation fees, midweek and weekend fare differences and 
blackouts if they apply.
Note:
Change fee not applicable. 
Reissues will be permitted depending on the rule of the type
of fare purchased.

Blackouts apply for ID 80% and ID 50% travel.
There will be no advance seat selection.
Denied compensation will not apply. 

ID 80% is subject to deplanement 
ID 50% may refuse to deplane 

Aeroplan accumulation is not permitted on ID 80% or ID 50% tickets. 

1998 ID 80% tickets must be issued by Dec 1st, 1998 and travel 
must commence by December 31st, 1998.
Reservations for travel in 1999 can be made as of Dec 15, 1998.
Tickets can be issued but cannot be used before 01 Jan 1999. 

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. George Brien lets us in on this -
Here's a good Canadian Aviation site for viewing- especially "stories
from the cockpit"  AC320 simulator story
http://www.exn.ca/flightdeck/
cheers George    email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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. Ross Smyth sends this information -
The Lindbergh  of Canada - The Erroll Boyd Story
review of Ross Smyth's book.
The transatlantic leg of Erroll Boyd's most important flight lasted
little more than a day, but it propelled him onto the international
stage and entered his name amongst those of the great aviators of the
Golden Age of Flight. 
Taking off from Harbour Grace, Newfoundland on 9 October 1930, Boyd
became the first CANADIAN to conquer the Atlantic Ocean. More
importantly by being the first to fly across the big pond outside of the
summer season, Boyd opened up the possibility of year-round
transatlantic commercial flight.

In 1938, Boyd escorted four teenage boys, winners of a contest sponsored
by Boyd's Aviation Scouts, on the trips of their lifetimes,  Some six
decades later, one of those four has brought Boyd's heroics back to life.

ROSS SMYTH, himself a passionate aviator and pioneer Atlantic
dispatcher, has traced Boyd's life - from childhood in Toronto to his
adventures chasing airships and submarines during the First World War
through to his many record-setting flights from USA and elsewhere - in
The Lindbergh of Canada.

The author, a 37 year veteran of T.C.A. and Air Canada, brings back the
shine to the reputation of this visionary aviation pioneer who advocated
a global peace air force as early as the 1930.
isbn: 1-896182-61-5, 6" x 9"  170 pp, $19.95
call 1-800-465-6072 to order your copy.
Ross Smyth  This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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. News from the districts -

From the monthly newsletter of the UK Pionairs.
Christmas lunch will be held on
When:   December 6th at 12.00 for 13.00 lunch
Where:  First Edition Restaurant with Best Sellers Bar
Menu:   Leek & Potato Soup, Roast Turkey with ALL the trimmings,
Christmas pudding or fruit salad and cream
Cost:   UKP 12.00 per person.
Coffee and mince pies.
Extra:  The congeniality of the UK Pionairs and friends - come and meet
some of them, there is free parking.
Details from Jack Morath 01276-500918

Glynn Lovell, who runs a travel agency after his retirement from Air Canada,
tells us that the Canadian Tourism Commission and Provinces represented in
the UK are looking for volunteers with a good knowledge of the whole of
Canada to represent them at various public exhibitions in the UK. It is
suggested that Air Canada retirees may be interested.
Call Glynn at 01372-843032 if interested.

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. While we have quite a few stories from Bill Norberg to relate, we thought
a change of pace would be in order -

Recently, John Baker, Director UK Pionairs took advantage of the British
Airways Interline offer of a trip on the Concorde, here are some of his
impressions (editted!) -

My wife, Ellen, and I have always wanted to experience a flight on the
Concorde, so we decided to 'go for it'.
Check in was 75 minutes before departure, and then the 'Fast Track'
through Security and Immigration and on to the First Class lounge. All
types of snack and drinks were available. The departure gate for Concorde
was directly from the lounge.
Passengers were asked to keep their hand luggage to a minimum due to
the lack of space on board. We thought the cabin might feel confined
but once aboard, we did not get that feeling at all. In fact only 60 of
the 100 seats were occupied.
Prior to take-off, the Captain gave an announcement of the take-off
procedures. The engine after-burners were applied until 80 seconds after
take-off and then cut for noise abatement. The acceleration was rapid and
the take-off run lasted about the same time as a B747 on the same route,
but the speed was greater. There was slight buffeting until the after-
burners were shut off, the rest of the flight was smooth.
We climbed to 28,000 feet and, when over Swansea, the Captain told us
we would start our supersonic acceleration. We would feel a nudge as the
after-burners were re-applied and they would remain on until after we had
passed the sound barrier. The actual transmission was smooth as we
continued to accelerate to Mach 2, twice the speed of sound, or 1320 mph.
After take-off, canapes and drinks were followed by a four course meal.
When the meal was finished, we were invited to visit the flight deck. The
flight had reached an altitude of 57,000 feet, as we slowed for the descent,
we had been supersonic for 2 hours and 43 minutes. The landing on our trip
was rather heavy and the Captain apologized 'not one of my better landings,
but my excuse is the cross winds and wind shear over the airport'.
The total flight time was 3 hours 21 minutes. We had left London at 19.00
and arrived New York at 17.50 local times. We still find it remarkable that
we crossed the Atlantic so quickly. The crew knew we were retired Air Canada,
and as we were about to deplane, they gave us a bottle of champagne to
enjoy at our hotel. This was in addition to the gift of a silver Concorde
propelling pencil.
Our conclusion of the trip  - it's the only way to fly!

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. A memory from Peter Kralka & your Chief Pilot Vesta -
A snap shot from the fifties.
It was a cold and windy morning in the winter of 1955/56.
Shortly after the start of the day shift in the Dorval Line Maintenance
Hangar #5 a fire followed an explosion in the next door Airforce Hangar #5.
Being of wood construction Hangar #6 was totally enguled in flames within a
few minutes. The personnel of Hangar 5 rushed to remove all TCA moveable
equipment.
Suzanne was the secretary to Bob Spafford Chief Mechanic of Hangar 5. In
the excitement of the moment and a desire to make some contribution to the
event, Suzanne carried an armful of personnel files to safety.
Hangar 6 was totally destroyed while Hangar 5 was saved with relatively
minor fire damage. Eventually the Hangar 5 mechanics were amazed to learn
that Suzanne had saved the Personnel Reprimand Files.
Peter Kralka      This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Thanks Peter, for bringing back a memory of my first midnight shift, ever.
I was a Teletype operator at that time, working in the Transat terminal
building at the end of the road. I nearly quit Air Canada after that
horrendous night after the fire. Geo Briggs, the OIC to the tely relay
center had to hold a flashlight above my head so I could read the
dispatches, clearances, flight crews, weather reports etc that had to be
sent to the stations down south etc.  It was not a pleasant night for me.
I was very nervous that night.
But now you have added a bit of humour to it, many many years later.
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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. Terry's travel tips.

From Ross Smyth -
Reading about "drive away" service reminded me of being bumped in Tampa
in 1964 with three young children around Easter and no space northbound.
I got the bright idea to phone car rentals and offered to ferry north.
I got a free car to New York where we also visited friends and the world's
fair.  Ferrying cars is a great deal.
Ross Smyth     This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Acapulco 4 days/3 nights Plaza Las Glorias Paraiso us$189 pp dbl
Continental Plaza         us$219 pp dbl
includes round trip via America West Airlines, accommodations,
hotel taxes and services. Additional us$112 pp includes
all meals, beverages, non motorized water sports etc.
San Juan 4 days/3 nights Regency Hotel us$299 pp dbl
includes round trip Delta Airlines, TWA or US Airways,
accommodations, continental breakfast, hotel taxes & services.
St. Thomas 4 days/3 nights Wynham Sugar Bay Beach Resort us$559 pp dbl
includes round trip space available Delta or US Airways,
accommodations, hotel taxes & services, all meals, beverages and
non-motorized water sports.
Nassau 4 days/3 nights Nassau Beach Hotel us$299 pp dbl
includes round trip space available Delta or US Airways
accommodations, hotel taxes and services.
Call 1-800-935-9444 for more details.

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.  That's it for this time, please we need your input, send
comments and email addresses of any others who may be
interested to Vesta with a copy to Terry.


/------------------------\               |--\_____/--\__  |
|  Between Yourselves     |______________ \______====== )-+
|       NetLetter         |                      ---|/--  |
\------------------------/                         ()

~Between Yourselves-Netletter~
mailto:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
mailto:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Copyright 1998 by Vesta Stevenson & Terry Baker.

==================================================================

|\^/|
_| TCA |_        B E T W E E N   Y O U R S E L V E S
_|\| AIR |/|_              N E T L E T T E R
>  CANADA   <
>_./|\._<           for Air Canada retirees
|

Chief Pilot  - Vesta Stevenson   This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
http://www.acra.ca/between/vesta/

Co-pilot     - Terry Baker         This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
http://www.acra.ca/between

number 307   date Sept 5th, 1998  1st Published in October 1995

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. WHAT'S ON AND WHERE IS IT?
(Compiled by Vesta you Chief Pilot -
Monday  September 7, 1998
SBAC Intl Air Show '98 at Farnborough,UK
Tuesday  September 8, 1998
*NEW* - Toronto
Terminal Two Coffee Klatch for Pearson Airport Sales Retirees at 1100hr
at Golden Griddle Airway Centre 5559 Airport Rd, everyone welcome,
see NetLetter Nr 294.....for more details
MONTREAL Weekly Bowling  League at Valois Arena 62
Donegani Pte Claire    Mary Timmons 514 626-3263.
SBAC Intl Air Show '98 at  Farnborough, UK
Wednesday  September 9, 1998
**NEW**  St Catherines
Pionairs/and other Retirees @10am Sweets & Crepes Cafe on Ontario St
at Lakeport.  A small  group of retirees meet up to solve some of the
world's problems. ALL retirees Welcome.
contact  Colin Bailey 935-3970
Alexandria     Air Canada Retirees Lunch Group monthly,
for info Clive 613-525-4819 or Cam 224-6469
SBAC Intl Air Show '98 at  Farnborough, UK
Thursday  September 10, 1998
1998 Halifax System Soccer Tournament will take place on the Halifax
Commons see NetLetter nr  286  for details
SBAC Intl Air Show '98 at Farnborough, UK

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. Don't forget to look in at the Pionairs web site
http://www.acra.ca/pionairs
This site is designed and editted by Tom Grant, formerly Air Canada,
Judith Grant, Pionair, and with input from
Alan Rust, Air Canada Tech. Ops. YVR and your
BETWEEN YOURSELVES NetLetter team.

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. Where are they now?
Bob Robbins sends us thie appeal -
Could I have your help for another Pionair who is trying to
restore contact with two former working associates/friends.
Leo Flood, now of Vernon BC, retired from Edmonton, and before that
posting, worked in Montreal Airport jobs from back in the late '40's.
He recently had major surgery, so is rather restricted.  He'd
like to be able to contact Ken Burns who worked at Montreal Airport
in the '60's.  Also Doug McMahon, who worked in Goose Bay, and
Montreal Airport.  Leo's telephone is 250 542 3416 - or I'd be glad
to pass on leads to him.  Thanks in anticipation!
Bob Robbins  This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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. James Riddoch sends us his bio -
I now reside in Nepean, ON. I left Air Canada in Dec 90 as Director,
Interior Systems Engineering after an interesting and fruitful career in
Maintenance and Engineering. I was Senior Director of Maintenance at
Bradley Air Services/First Air in Ottawa from Dec 90 till Jan 94.
Then I was recruited by the Canadian Aviation Maintenance Council
as Accreditation Manager & Registrar (actually it was a whole lot of other
duties as well but they don't tell you that  when you start).  I just
retired from that position in July but I am still working as a consultant
for the Council ( they don't easily let you go). If any of the old
maintenance gang are interested in what the Council is all about they can
find out more from the website www.camc.ca. We should have done all this
training 30 years ago but I believe Canada is now leading the world in this
type of technical training ( the U.S. love us and are willing to accept our
standards !).
It is very interesting to hear from the AC retirees and how they are
doing, many in totally unrelated functions to their career with AC.
Good for them!
Thanks and keep the news flowing.
Jim Riddoch  This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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.  Reading the story from Jack Cooke in NetLetter nr  304, has prompted Doug
Davidson to send us this -
Hi folks:
There's nothing new under the aviation sun.  Re the item in the Toronto
Star about stopping the movie to let the passengers see Greenland.
I did that myself when I was In-Charge of an L-1011 back in 1985.
On one trip the Captain was waxing lyrical about the scene below us, how
that little white speck was an iceberg actually a quarter mile long etc
etc.  A middle-aged English passenger commented to me that the Captain was
a very knowledgeable fellow.  I hadn't the heart to tell him that the
Captain had National Geographic spread out across his knees.
It happened during the Flight Attendants' strike - one of the highlights
of my Air Canada career.  Great fun and source of a million stories.
Best regards.   Doug Davidson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>

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. Tom Martin sends this comment -
Bill Norberg's comments in NL301 about the DC9 vs the BAC111 reminded me
that the late Tom Truscott and I were attending an inter airline meeting in
Long Beach shortly after AC had opted to buy the DC9 and at the windup the
airlines were beng hosted by the Douglas VP of Product Support, Hal Bayer.
As the evening progressed, Hal was called away and when he returned his
usual   calm demeanor changed dramatically and he started to berate the reps
from       American Airlines.  Tom and I took Bayer aside and found he had
been told
that AA had just announced the purchase of the BAC111.
This was a severe blow to Douglas to have one of the big guys buy a
foreign     airplane.  I don't recall if  they had operating problems or not.
Some years later when AC was negotiating with Douglas over the possible
buy    of the DC10 and after a tough day of give and take, some wag suggested to
Bayer that I reminded him of the mean looking Norman Rockwell character
with    the pitchfork.  At the windup before the AC team went up to Burbank the
Douglas people were saying how much they hoped we'd buy their airplane.
Bayer   stood up and said they had something for me and it turned out to be
a good
sized copy of American Gothic which they sent up to YUL on a DC9 delivery
flight.  It hung in my office until I retired and now resides in our
storeroom where my wife says it belongs - out of sight.
(Many of our readers from YUL will remember that picture in Tom's office!)
Tom Martin   This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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. Ken Day sends us a story -

My six year old granddaughter recently brought to my attention a very large
insect that bore a striking resemblance to a cockroach- in Whistler of all
places!! -  a close visual examination prompted recall of the following:
a short story that could be entitled -"Not putting your best foot forward."
Flight Attendant Crew lay-over hotels together with other factors were
subject to approval by in-flight servicemanagement, together with CALFAA
(union) representation. In the latter capacity I accompanied Frank
St. Hilaire in an on-site inspection of the then newly built Blue Waters
Hotel in Barbados.
The hotel manager was very accommodating as we toured the facilities and
clearly was anxious to obtain the airline business.  As we were terminating
the visit, slowly walking down the stairs from the second floor, Frank and
the manager were engaged in conversation concerning a potential contract.
A movement on the stairs, a dark brown leggy insect caught my attention. It
also did not escape the eye of the manager. It did go unnoticed by Frank.
Now picture this-With furtive glances at the floor, all the while
continuing his conversation with Frank, the manager attempted to step on
the cockroach. Glance at floor, back to eye contact with Frank- cockroach
moves- foot misses. There were several failed attempts! and clearly it was
not a case of his best foot forward. The cockroach lived to move another
day.
In the buggy vein some may know of those occasions where on clearing Canada
Customs on return from warmer climes and your suitcase is opened for
inspection on the counter and out hops!! Moral:  Don't leave your suitcase
open in those climes or anywhere else for that matter.
Ken Day  This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Our Chief Pilot gets around too! as evidenced by the followup -

Thanks for the humourous story, it brought a memory of my staying at the
very same hotel, probably around that very same time.  BTW I didn't see
any uninvited visitors while I was there but did see one big one in
Montego Bay and when I called to have it killed they laughed and said 'no
no missy those are good bugs' and they captured it to live another day.
Maybe that was the intent of the hotel manager.<G>  I met him of course
and enjoyed my stay at the Blue Waters.
Vesta Stevenson   This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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. News from the Districts.
From the London England Pionairs Monthly Newsletter -
The company has announced that the Flight Despatch Office at Heathrow
will close this December 1998. Control of flights in the present area
of responsibility - mid-Atlantic eastward across Europe, Middle East
and Asia as far as Singapore - will gradually be taken over by the Toronto
office. Some staff will transfer to Toronto, while others will be offered
positions at Heathrow.
In 1943, Trans-Canada Air Lines launched the Canadian Government
Trans-Atlantic Air Service (CGTAS) from Montreal to Prestwick, using
modified Avro Lancaster aircraft. In 1946 the service was extended to
Heathrow. Canadian flight despatchers were sent to Prestwick and opened the
first Flight Despatch office outside Canada. Shannon service started in
1947 and some despatchers were sent there for a short period of time before
opaning an office at Heathrow in 1948. This office was located in one of
the prefacbricated buildings on the north side of the airport close to
where the main entrance to the airport is now located. In 1960 this office
was relocated to the Queens Building until 1992 when it moved to its
present location in Terminal 3.
In the 1950's there were Flight Despatch offices in Moncton, Halifax,
Montreal, Toronto, Winnipeg and Vancouver. Over the years they were
gradually consolidated  into a single office in Toronto. A multi-million
dollar upgrade of equipment in the Toronto office means they can now
despatch and monitor flights anywhere in the world and this will allow for
the closure of the London office and all Air Canada flights will be
despatched by the centralised office in Toronto.

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. Help wanted!
Lily Carre asks the following question -
Can anyone advise whether Don Murray in Halifax has an e-mail address.
I could not find it on the internet - maybe I just didn't know how to go
about it!  As you know the Air Canada pilots are on strike at the moment
and we have already registered for the System Golf Tournament in Winnipeg.
Just wondering if I could get a hold of Don Murray to request what to do.
"Lily Carre" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>

and from Don Hancock -
Jean and Don Hancock are booked on the P & O Rpyal Princess departing
Fort Lauderdale Nov 4th South America Cruise and would like to know
if any other Air Canada employee/retirees are also on board.
Also would appreciate hearing from anyone who could recommend a hotel
with a good airline rate for an overnight stop in FLL.
REGARDS DON HANCOCK EMAIL This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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. Terry's travel tips.
From the London England Pionairs monthly Newsletter -
Driving or delivering cars to destinations in the USA -
When in Canada, check the Yellow pages under the heading "Drive-Away', and
you will see a list of companies which do just that.
One in Toronto is Toronto Drive-Away service (514) 225-7754. They hire
drivers to take cars to many destinations in the US and Western Canada.
This company advised that if you drive a car during the end of October
through to December to Florida, Arizona or California, the fuel is free;
there is also a $150.00 bonus to help with the return air fare. Drivers
must be over 22 years of age. Another contact in Toronto is (416)226-4616.
(We would be interested if anyone has done, or will be doing, this - eds)

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. Smilies.
Pat Fitzgerald sends us some signs which can be seen around the world -
In a Czechoslovakin tourist agency:
Take one of our horse-driven city tours - we guarantee no miscarriages.
Advertisement for donkey rides in Thailand:
Would you like to ride on your own ass?
In a Swiss mountain inn:
Special today -- no ice cream.
In a Bangkok temple:
It is forbidden to enter a woman even a foreigner if dressed
as a man.
In a Tokyo bar:
Special cocktails for the ladies with nuts.
In a Copenhagen airline ticket office:
We take your bags and send them in all directions.
On the door of a Moscow hotel room:
If this is your first visit to the USSR, you are welcome to it.
In a Norwegian cocktail lounge:
Ladies are requested not to have children in the bar.
In a Budapest zoo:
Please do not feed the animals. If you have any suitable food,
give it to the guard on duty.

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.  That's it for this time, please we need your input, send
comments and email addresses of any others who may be
interested to Vesta with a copy to Terry.


/------------------------\               |--\_____/--\__  |
|  Between Yourselves     |______________ \______====== )-+
|       NetLetter         |                      ---|/--  |
\------------------------/                         ()

~Between Yourselves-Netletter~
mailto:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
mailto:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Copyright 1998 by Vesta Stevenson & Terry Baker.

==================================================================

|\^/|
_| TCA |_        B E T W E E N   Y O U R S E L V E S
_|\| AIR |/|_              N E T L E T T E R
>  CANADA   <
>_./|\._<           for Air Canada retirees
|

Chief Pilot  - Vesta Stevenson   This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
http://www.acra.ca/between/vesta/

Co-pilot     - Terry Baker         This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
http://www.acra.ca/between

number 306   date Sept 3rd, 1998  1st Published in October 1995

=====================================================================

. Where are they now.
Jack Somerset has been using his son David's email, but now has his
own email address now - try it  This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Mary Mosienko has returned from vacation and changed her email to
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

We are not getting through to James Robertson, email was
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - anyone know why?

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. In response to the appeal by Margaret Bartlett in NetLetter nr 305,
Gordon Froede sends this information -

There is the ole Ramada airport inn which is close to Port Everglades.
It's a dump in the middle of nowhere, but it has a pool and reasonable
interline rates. I stay there the night before catching a cruise ship.
Sorry, no 800 number, and to get the rate you cannot call the Ramada central
res. ofc.
An alternative is the Sheraton Yankee Clipper, slightly more expensive
but right on the beach and also near the port. The last two times I tried
to get a rate they were full. Bonne chance! What if any cruise are you
going on? I am booked on the Grand Princess two weeks back-to-back
Eastern Carib. Nov.1-15/98.
Crusing beats flying and their captains don't seem to strike so much.   
Cheers, Gordon Froede      This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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. Ready for another story from Bill Norberg? - here goes -
A nearly airline story.
During my years as Vice President Air Transportation Services for the
airline I did a lot of travelling to interesting places around the
world. As would be suspected I also had some very interesting experiences.
On one occasion I was visiting Syrian Arab Airlines in Damascus Syria and
had Clayton Glenn travelling with me as well as one other person who
could speak Artabic. We spent several days meeting with executives of the
airline establishing what services we might be able to offer them to assist
them in developing their airline capabilities.
We had travelled from Montreal to Paris via Air Canada and then Paris to
Damascus via Air France. The hotel accomodations in Damascus while acceptable
in a broad sense were far from the standards we usually expected. We had one
set of working bathroom facilities between the three rooms as an example.
Clean potable drinking water was almost impossible to find it seemed and
canned Lebanese beer was the only safe beverage.
On the last evening we were there we were dinner guests of the Vice
President of Syrian Arab Airlines at a large outdoor restaurant where
most people were smoking large water pipes at their tables. The Hors
D'Oeuvres were very local in nature such as raw sheeps liver etc which we
declined as graciously as we could. I weakened and accepted a local beverage
that used ice cubes and was to pay for that later. The Vice President of
Syrian Arab was most anxious that we fly on their airline back to Paris but
due to loads there was only one open seat available. I graciously deferred to
Clayton and I continued with my Air France arrangements to Paris. As there
was a difference in departure times I was to advise Air France and and we
agreed to meet in Paris for our flight back to Montreal.
I waited for Clayton in the agreed hotel in Paris but he didn't show up
at the scheduled time. I was concerned but was unable to get any reason for
the delay. Later in the evening there was a knock on my hotel door and
there was Clayton and did he have a story for me.
It turns out that the flight he was to travel on to Paris started in
India and when it arrived in Damascus there was a 30 passenger overage due
to improper flight load data from India. The aircraft was a Caravelle which
as you may know loaded via a stairway at the rear of the fuselage. When the
boarding passengers tried to get on the aircraft it became obvious there
were many more passengers than available seats. The ones in the seats
wouldn't give them up and the boarding passengers who thought they had
seats wouldn't leave the aircraft. It was a mess. Damascus is in the desert
and in mid day it is hot! Clayton  left the aircraft when he saw what was
going on and stood outside in the shade of the wing while the local manager
tried to sort matters out.
His solution was to close the front door of the aircraft, turn off the
ground airconditioner and let the heat build up inside the aircraft. It
wasn't long before they were all running out of the aircraft like rats
leaving a sinking ship. He then herded them into the airconditioned
terminal where he coralled 30 passengers in a room while he boarded the
rest. That is  one way to deal with oversales!
I was to regret my decision to have that local drink with ice cubes as I
awoke the next morning with the worst case of the "flying axe handles" I
have ever had. I had a miserable flight back to Montreal and spent 10 days
in bed with an intestinal infection due to the parasite in the ice cubes.
From: Bill Norberg <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>

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. The story from Charlie Mackie in NetLetters nr 304 and 305 prompted this
memory from Bob Robbins -

Many thanks for Charlie (as I knew him) Mackie's engrossing
story of the CGTAS Lancaster's "mechanical-forced" flight into Greenland's
Blue the West One.  I don't think I've ever seen that Airport's name in
writing.  My phonetic memory of it was "Bluie-West".
I was posted to Goose Bay in 1947 - just after the Lanc's were phased
out and the North Stars started carrying (usually full westbound)
loads of passengers.
The ARCAN radio room and the meteorological briefing offices were on
the American Base.  In one of them there was a scale mockup of Blue
the West One - (4, 6, 8 feet long??) of the mountains, the fjord, the fjord
fork, the airport, and (I think) the mountains (glaciers?) at the end of
the runway.   There was also a document that gave step-by-step
descriptions of how to contact, approach and land; also a suspended colored
wire replicating the heights and courses that should be flown during
the full approach.
Was this mockup inspired by either of those original TCA
pilots - George Lothian and/or Lindy Rood?  I expect one or more of
our many ARCAN radio operators could elaborate. (Bill Willows?  Don
Demeza? Graham Williams?  50 years rather fade my memories!)
Incidentally, for the many "Goose Bay grads", if you can
ever get hold of "Checkmate In The North (The Axis Planned to Invade
America)" by William Guy Carr (Macmillan, 1945) you'll find it hard
to put down.  It recounts the difficult search for an airport site,
the lucky finding of Goose just before the freeze-up, and many
details of the construction and early operations.
Thanks again for all the great stories,  you two publishers and
many contributors.
Bob Robbins   This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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. Found on the internet.

LAX SECURITY?
While the government tries to make us feel warm and fuzzy
about all the security measures being taken to protect us, this story is
likely closer to the reality of the situation.  One of the terminals at
LAX was evacuated of 1,700 people last week and 29 flights were
suspended when an X-ray machine detected what appeared to be a gun in a
man's luggage.  In a classic from the Keystone Cops, agents then stopped
the wrong passenger.  Authorities cleared the terminal and halted all
flights until they could determine, some two hours later, that the
alleged weapon was a gun-shaped cigarette lighter.  But wait, there's
more.  Earlier this month, a woman with a real gun was able to get past
security, prompting the evacuation of the same terminal and delaying 35
flights.

THE WIND IN YOUR HAIR, THE SUN ON YOUR CHEEKS?
The crew of an Air National Guard KC-135 tanker has taken the phrase,
"Let it all hang out" to new heights, if you will.
The all-male crew flew a mission in the buff last month out of Fairchild AFB
near Spokane, Wash.  Major Philip Logan, an ANG spokesman, is keeping most
of the details on the alleged buck naked aviating under wraps, but says the
Guard is taking it very seriously.

UNRULY PAX ATTACK, BA CARDS 'EM!
It seems that on British Airways, a stiff upper lip is going to be replaced
by a little yellow card.
Aviation Daily is reporting that beginning September 1, BA flight
attendants will begin handing out soccer-style yellow cards to unruly
passengers.  Once warned, if they persist in their misdeeds, passengers
will be arrested upon landing.  Airline officials point to a 400%
increase in violent incidents over the last three years.

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. Brian Dunn sends us some YYZ news -

YYZ NEWS - TUESDAY, AUGUST 25, 1998

Royal Express obtained its certificate of operation August 14th from
Transport Canada.  The airline (an operating subsidiary of Royal
Aviation) expects to begin "scheduled" airline services shortly from
Montreal-Dorval airport to Ft. Lauderdale and Orlando as well as to
Toronto, Calgary, and Vancouver. Royal Express is expected to use a
combination of aircraft allocated from the existing Royal Airlines fleet
including the 737/727/757 and A310.
An interline deal with TWA and First Air has already been worked out with
more to follow once the "new" airline is up and running.

British Airways Concorde will be departing YYZ at 1200hrs on
September 5th, 10th, and 15th.  Have your cameras ready.

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. Terry's travel tips.

Canadian Interline Travel -
INTERLINE CRUISE SALE
Norwegian Dynasty      Sep 8 - 10 Nights
Inside $699us  Outside $799us  Deluxe $899us
RATES ARE IN US DOLLARS AND ARE BASED ON DOUBLE OCCUPANCY.
For Reservations Call 1-800-665-3100 Today!! and mention Pionairs.

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. Smilie.

"The male pilot is a poor, confused soul who talks about women when he's
in an airplane...and talks about airplanes when he is with a woman."

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.  That's it for this time, please we need your input, send
comments and email addresses of any others who may be
interested to Vesta with a copy to Terry.


/------------------------\               |--\_____/--\__  |
|  Between Yourselves     |______________ \______====== )-+
|       NetLetter         |                      ---|/--  |
\------------------------/                         ()

~Between Yourselves-Netletter~
mailto:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
mailto:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Copyright 1998 by Vesta Stevenson & Terry Baker.